Reality was, is, and will be
D.: Does Sri Bhagavan believe in evolution?
M.: Evolution must be from one state to another. When no differences are admitted, how can evolution arise?
D.: Why does Sri Krishna say, “After several rebirths the seeker gains knowledge and thus knows Me.” There must be evolution from stage to stage.
M.: How does Bhagavad Gita begin?” Neither I was not nor you nor these chiefs, etc.” “Neither it is born, nor does it die, etc.” So there is no birth, no death, no present as you look at it. Reality was, is, and will be. It is changeless. Later Arjuna asked Sri Krishna how he could have lived before Aditya. Then Krishna, seeing Arjuna was confounding Him with the gross body, spoke to him accordingly. The instruction is for the one who sees diversity. In reality there is no bondage nor mukti for himself or for others from the Jnani ’s standpoint.
D.: Are all in liberation?
M.: Where is all? There is no liberation either. It could be only if there was bondage. There was really no bondage and so, it follows, there is no liberation.
D.: But to evolve through births, there must be practice, years of abhyasa.
M.: Abhyasa is only to prevent any disturbance to the inherent peace. There is no question of years. Prevent this thought at this moment. You are only in your natural state whether you make abhyasa or not.
Another man asked: Why do not all realise the Self in that case?
M.: It is the same question in another guise. Why do you raise this question? Inasmuch as you raise this question of abhyasa it shows you require abhyasa. Make it.
But to remain without questions or doubts is the natural state.
God created man; and man created God. They both are the originators of forms and names only. In fact, neither God nor man was created.
Talks with Ramana Maharshi
20th October, 1936
Talk 264.
